Greg and Debra Barnes – OTVII Knowledge Reports

These internal Knowledge Reports were exchanged in the organization in 1999 in accordance with Scientology’s Ethics procedures while the Barnes’ fought to clear their names and to get Hubbard’s technology applied correctly during the upper OT levels.

“Speaking Freely” – Greg and Debra Barnes were long time members of Scientology and on OT 7 when they tried to apply KSW and found themselves declared SP.

“Things That Should Not Be” Report:

May 10, 1999

At the time Greg wrote this report, he didn’t understand that he was intentionally being “reverse audited” at Flag Service Organization.

On Friday I go into session with Therese Blum she flys my ruds. Asks do you have ARC X? Then looks up and asks do you have an ARC X? I answer and she says s/g that I could not understand. She then asks do you have a PTP? She then asks do you have a consideration and I said yes aren’t you going to complete the ARC X and she says ” it didn’t read”. This stuck my attenion and then she does not reask PTP and goes right to W/H and after she asks the? she looks up and says has a w/h been missed. We spent at least 45 minutes and I could not find anything for the longest time and we finally got how I was covert in a comm cycle.

Then next thing she said was that we are going to start the sec check. The ? was has RTC missed a W/H on you? I could not find a/g on this. She then started asking me about any out ethics in general and I told her that I had yelled at my son and my wife and had been invalidative. None of these are of recent nature. She then started asking for more out-ethics and she volunteered areas porn on the internet, entheta on the internet about Scientology, had I slept with Virgina McClaughry and she went on.

I asked her aren’t you going to take up any of those that I gave you and she said no I am just checking for an overview of out-ethics. She then took up my yelling at my son and after I told her about it she did not ask when or is that all or anything else. I asked her if she was going to finish the overt and she did. I was told by her that we were going to do this FPRD style and she hatted me on this but we did not handle this OW FPRD style we FN’ed it and then ended off.

After the session I decided to request another auditor because of the ARCX confusion and her not being an American maybe there was a language problem.

I called on Saturday and requested from Valerie a change of auditor and requested Debbie Titus who had been auditing my wife and had had great wins with. I was told that by Valerie that Debbie Titus was a review auditor and could not do Sec Checks. This made no sense since she was doing my wife’s eligibility, I also requested a change of C/S. I told Valerie that I had only 5 hours of sleep and was not sessionable she said come in anyways.

I arrived and Valerie the senior D of P denied my request for another auditor or C/S and told me that I was going to continue with this auditor and C/S. I told Valerie about the ARCX confusion in session and about her accent and she just acked me.

After Valerie had denied my request the auditor opens the door to the HGC and says to me ” problem with my accent?” She was sarcastic about it.

We went into her auditing room and I told her that I was not sessionable and she put the cans in my hands and told me that she was going to do a FPRD correction list. I told her no we weren’t because I was not sessionable and that was squirrel and I put down the cans. She tried to get me to pick up the cans and I refused. After some 10-15 minutes of my refusing to pick up the cans she said let’go.

I was then escorted back to the MAA office and then back up to the HGC. Causuma came up and said that my auditor was going to do an ethics interview.

I went back into the auditors room and she began asking me “what overt has been restimulated” this was run repetitively on me with no OW’s that I gave being taken up per standard handling of OW’s. I started to get enturbulated and asked if there was another question and she said no just answer this one. After some 20-30 minutes of having this question run on me repetitively with no FN’s indicated or OW’s per the standard handling I refused to continue and put the cans down.

She then got up and opened her door and Causuma and April came in and escorted me to the RTC rep (Italian girl) and told her that I was being uncooperative. I told the RTC rep that the auditor tried to do a FPRD correction list on me and I was not sessionable. April then told the RTC rep that I had shown ED Gonsolin C/S Series 73RB and that he was off the level. I told April she was lying. April then told the RTC rep that 10 people had seen the reference and this was also a lie. More discussion was had and Causuma told me that she wanted do an ethics interview and I agreed.

We went back to the HGC routed back into the auditing room and I told Causma to tell the auditor what we were going to do and she did. I sat down this time even more tired and the auditor began with “what overt has been restimulated”?? I told her we were suppose to do an ethics interview and she said this is it. This repetitive process of “what overt has been restimulated” went on for about 25 minutes and then I said no more. I told her that I was tired and getting hungry and she said “I just want to get this question answered”.! I continued for awhile longer and then said no more.

I stood up and the auditor stood up and tried to get me to sit back down and I told her that I just wanted to go see Causuma. She would not accept this and she blocked the door. I told her we were not going to continue this because I was tired and getting hungry and I wanted to go home and get some sleep. I told her we were not going to continue and that was that. I started to get pissed and she said “I know you want to hit me so go ahead” I told her that I wasn’t going to hit her I just had had enough. Cuasuma and April then came in and started to somewhat yell at me and showed me HCOB 6 March 1982R Confessional Tech Policies and told me that if I did not answer the question that she would put a non-enturbulation order on me. I told her go ahead I don’t care because this was going no where and I was tired and hungry.

I agreed to go at it somemore so the auditor came back in and we proceeded on the repetitive question”what overt has been restimulated”. This went on for another 10-15 minutes and finally I said no more. I was giving OW’s with the questions but none of them were taken down per how to handle OW’s and no FN ever indicated. After she got that no matter what she did I wasn’t going to continue Causuma and April came in like the door was never locked. They both said that this question is reading and you are going to answer it. I told them that I had been answering it and one of them said you are going to answer it somemore. April then sits down in the auditors chair and says I am going to ask you s/g pick up the cans. I told Causuma to stay and she did. April asked me “what overt has been restimulated?” I put the cans down and said no more.

The auditor then came back into the room and all three of them were blocking the door. I told them that this was too weird and that this wasn’t Scientology and I did not sign up for this insanity. I tried to get to the door and they were gently pushing me back and I said enough. I was threatened with non-enturbulation order and again I said I don’t care, I refuse to cooperate any further that this whole situation was over and that they could do anything that they wanted.

The auditor then came back inside and Causuma and April then left and she asked me if I could come back in tommorrow. I told her no and to have Cathy call me on Monday.

Cathy calls me on Monday and I tell her that I am not coming in. I get transferred to Causuma and I tell her that I am mailing her a letter and it will explain everything.

She trys to get me to come in to speak with her but I refuse and we both hang up. She calls back and leaves a message that if I am not there in :30 minutes she will put a non-enturbulation order on me for blowing a sec check. Causma calls me back and we talk and I tell her that I am not coming in and I won’t let Debra have done to her want was done to me because it was squirrel and she knew it.

Causuma tells me to come pick up my Non-Enturbulation order and I told her just mail it to me and we ended the comm.

This is what occurred and I wouldn’t have believed it if it didn’t happen to me personally. I want you to know that I did everything to cooperate for as long as I could and I should have stopped the entire madness a lot sooner than I finally did. It is obvious to me that there is an SP on the lines for something this gross to have occurred. I do hope that you can see that there was everything done to try and spin me in and make it look like I deserve a NON-Enturb order based on False Reports and a squirelly sec check or ethics interview.

Letter To Scientology’s International Justice Chef (IJC):

Last night (5/9) my wife and I went to our first hearing of our comm eve. We had requested K/R’s on Saturday and were denied copies of these by April the public MAA and the Heather Petzold the Senior Dir of I &R. I told the Dir of I & R that we needed a copy of the K/R’s per HCOPL so that we could respond to the charges she said you will see them at your Comm Eve. We were called by April later that night(Sat) and left a message that my wife and I could come in on Sunday evening to see the K/R’s @ 7:00PM approximately 30- minutes before the committee met. April also left on the same message that we were both under a non-enturbulatin order.

My wife and I went in and there were some K/R’s by April. I had 5 K/R’s plus a non-enturbulation order that I was not given a copy of and told that she only had one copy. I asked for copies of the K/R’s and was told by April that she would make copies and give them to me later. I never got copies. April asked me if Debra knew she was under a non-enturbulation order and I told her how were we suppose to know we never received a copy of any notice of such an action. Neither my wife or I have ever received a NON-Enturbulation order and a lot of ethics gradients have been skipped here, this is very ethics.

The hearing was short and I was asked by Art Webb how I pleaded to several charges just charges no specifics of why I was being charged with anything. I plead innocent to everything except causing a problem and I pleady guilty. I asked if I could tape the proceedings and was told that there is no policy stating you can. The committee had a tape recorder but I do not know if it was on or not. Since we were being denied a bill of particulars and K/R’s I wanted to have a record of what went on. I was not asked any questions by the committe regarding any of the evidence. I provide each committe member with the attached data.

After I gave my pleadings to the more than 8-10 crimes and I think there were some high crimes I was dismissed. This occurred around 8:00PM I am not sure of the exact time.

I went out and sat down in reception and was not seen again by the committee. I requested to see my Non-Enturbulation Order, from one of the members, she was a black girl, who kept on coming out of the meeting room. She told me to get it from April and I told her that April had given her only copy to the Comm Eve committee. The girl went in and was coming out with the Non-Enturbulation order when another member stopped her and the black girl said you will have to get a copy from April.

My wife went into the meeting and after she was done I told the black girl that we would be responding to the K/R’s that the committee was given on us. She told me that I could send the responses per policy to ethics and that they were not interested in receiving our responses and that it did not matter. The girl was polite but was very clear in that the committee did not want our responses. How can a committee of evidence evaluate correctly the innocence or guilt of someone if they do not have all the data. This is our concern that this fact finding body does not have all the facts and I do not know if we have seen all of the reports either.

I was shown 5 K/R’s and not given any copies otherwise I would have attached them for you to see.

Here is a rundown of what I saw:

K/R by Peaches Pook a public and friend of mine: She wrote that I told her that we tell all new people coming on board that we do not allow K/R’s to be written in our company.

Response: I did say that and we also tell people that if you have something to say you tell the person whom you have something to say to. Get in comm don’t just write a K/R apply ethics gradients.

K/R-Jessica (Public MAA Receptionist): This K/R stated that my wife was yelling at April concerning where are our K/R’s.

Response: Her voice was raised by not yelling and we were upset that we were being denied copies of K/R’s which violates HCOPL K/R’s as well as denied a copy of the bill of particulars. We were justifiably upset that here was a document that accused us of some very serious acts as well as acts that were totally false and the Heather the Dir of I & R was extremely short with me regarding my wanting to have a copy. She stated “that you have been furnished a copy and you read it and that is all we have to do and we do not want you to have a copy”.

K/R-Causma(Public MAA): Stated that I refused to come in and see her and told her to mail me my non-enturbulation order that she said that she was going to put on me for not coming in to see her. It stated other points as well but that were the main points that I recall.

Response: True I did tell her that I would not come in and that I would not let happen to Debra what had occurred to me in that non-standard “ethics interview” where I was asked repetitively”what overt has been restimulated” and I was not sessionable and told several terminals this as I stated in my earlier comm to you.

K/R-Theresa Blum(my auditor): One report said that I was evil and 1.1 and I refused to continue letting her audit me. Regarding the evil and 1.1 points of her K/R there were no specific acts that I recall that she gave and per HCOPL opinions are not part of K/R’s. There was more to the report but again I was not given a copy. Theresa also wrote at the top of the report the auditing command she was using “overt in restimulation” I am pretty sure that is what she wrote. The command she used and April used was what overt has been restimulated. I told April that that was the command and that that was a listing question and did she remember that and she just schrugged her shoulders.

Response: This could have been the session first thing Saturday afternoon where she wanted to do a FPRD correction list on me after I told her that I had had only 5 hours of sleep and even after I told her that she wanted to do the correction list and I put the cans down. This was also in another one of my reports that I sent to IJC as well as provided to the committee of evidence.

K/R-Theresa Blum (Do not have data on it ) Again I have no copy as of yet.

K/R-Ruth Valko written by April from an interview: Stated that I told her to read C/S Series 73RB and highlighted exception section and part B of page 4. Ruth told me to write up a Things that shouldn’t be report.

Response: This report was correct but I would like to make it clear that I did not get a copy and neither do I recall if there were other points on the K/R that I would respond to. What is the out-ethics on telling someone to read an HCOB?

K/R-Ed Gonsolin-written by his auditor and I was shown only the top paragraph where it stated that I had meetings at my house. It stated the Virginia and Ed and Debra and myself were the only attendees. The report stated that we met at Virginia’s house. Virginia lives in Idaho, Ed in LA and we live in Clearwater. I told April the above regarding our different states of residence and she stated that maybe it was here in Clearwater. I recall no time when Virginia and ED were together here at Flag and that is not to say that it did not happen but I do not recall a time of specific where we would have a meeting.

At the current moment my wife and I are very concerned that we will be declared suppressive persons. Many LRH references have been violated regarding the proceedings that have transpired so far and they are:

1) Denied a copy of the bill of particulars of the comm eve.

2) Not provided with copies of K/R’s written us and the comm eve committee not interested in our response.

3) False Reports being written on me and my wife as in the bill of particulars stating alarming crimes and high crimes which are not true and this bill of particulars being put in reception of the MAA’s office and we are denied a copy by the Senior Dir of I & R.

4) This entire situation is extremely enturbulating and suppressive to us because of the above stated points and we do not feel that justice is what is being gone after here.

Your immediate help in this matter is needed because we are concerned that we will soon be declared based on false reports.


Greg Barnes

Non-Monetary Contributions To Scientology:

Letter sent May 19, 1999

Clearwater, Florida 33756
May 9th, 1999
Greg and Debra Barnes

Contributions of Greg and Debra Barnes:

Was awarded the #3 top street bookseller in the US in 1980.

Assisted Dissem org in getting the Tony Hichman interview put on cable TV stations in Dallas in 1984. Went and got several stations to put the interview on. Dallas Texas

Assisted the then Mission in Atlanta with regging and recruitment of staff. I regged an estimated 60-70 thousand dollars and got people moving onto auditing and training who were not.

When mission was becoming org we donated $500.00 to furnish the LRH office and our donation made the project happen. 1984-90

During the Portland trial we paid the plane ticket for someone to go and represent us.

1986, started WISE consulting company Atlanta Georgia and put over 70 doctors onto the bridge and some of these doctors staff joined mission staff. Many became Patrons and are still active today. These doctors spent in excess of $1 million with the church not to mention the others that they brought in that we don’t know about. We paid over 250,000 in royalties to WISE over a 4 year period and introduced LRH admin tech to over 300 doctors. Many of our doctors did L’s at Flag and we sent doctors into orgs in Ohio,Minneapolis and Atlanta and LA Day. Will provide names if desired.

Spoke at a public forum in Gwinette County Georgia against having a psych hospital put in. We went twice and Dwight Matheny who ran the CCHR Chapter in Atlanta can attest to this. 1989-90

Did radio talk show Media on Dianetics in 1986-87, estimate that we did 10-15 talk shows that got very good results.

Became Life time members of IAS right after the IAS was formed.

Moved to Dallas in 1990 and became active with OT committee and was on training.

Went to Chalokoe in Oklahoma City to participate in the support for the center when it was under attacked by David Mayo and other squirrels. Their was a mental health board meeting that was discussing Chalokoe and we were there to show support.

After Oklahoma Bombing a new mission was formed and did not have a supervisor. Debra is an interned sup and took two weeks off of work and went up there so that the mission could open and deliver courses. Her going there was vital for the mission to open. This occurred some 2-3 weeks after the Federal Building was bombed.

We housed for some 30-60 days the sup in training that the Oklahoma Mission sent down to Dallas to get trained.

Went on a OSA cycle with Carol South where we acted like wogs to get data for OSA Dallas on a squirrel group being run by Alan Walters this occurred around 91-92.

Assisted the DSA Austin in recruiting an OT to infiltrate another squirrel group in Dallas by Alan Walters. 93-94

Housed on two different occasions the CO Wise WUS Nattassia Briggs when she was in town to get members signed up. 92-93 estimated time

Housed Bob Bledsoe on two different occasions he was a Flag FSM and assisted him with names of individuals who could be Flag public. 93-94 est. time

Housed for almost two weeks a SO recruit tour. 94-95 est. time

Assisted the Flag World Tour everytime they came to Dallas on possible prospects. Assisted in closing an L-11 package on one Kay Proctor by telling her my success on L-11.

Became OT Committee Chairman in 1994-1996 and ran the most successful recovery program and got more students back on lines than any other OT committee in Dallas. Sponsored seminars with speakers like Jim Kalergis. These events were attended by 50-60 people and books and services were sold because of these seminars. These seminars are still taking place today by my replacement Hildegard Jessup as the OT committee chairman.

Our OT committee put on the most successful fund raising auction dinner for Jerry Boswell who runs the CCHR chapter in Austin Texas this occured in 1996. Our program was so successful that Houston and Austin did the same activity and the dinner is still going on every year and raising more money for CCHR Austin. The Dallas auction raised 15 – 18 thousand dollars. With Austin and Houston the total came to a estimated $35,000.

We personally donated over 2000.00 to CCHR Austin in 1996. We have continued donating funds in 1997 and 98. We have donated to the Clearwater CCHR chapter since we have moved here in November 1996.

In 1992 or 1993 a project was told to us at Flag to get an LRH autobiography published and we donated some 6500.00 to this project.

My wife finished paying for our Patron status in 92-93 and we have since continued donating when we can. We have put into the IAS an estimated 50-55 thousand.

Debra went to great extents to get a squirrel named Angie DeMarro, in 1992-93 off the level when Debra found that this terminal was back on 7 and at home auditing with confidential materials. Hy Levy can attest to this.

Since being in Clearwater November of 1996. Was a spokes person for the Church to the press regarding the Lisa McPherson situation.

Carol South, myself and another terminal took off from work and went to 3-4 TV stations to speak to the station manager or news manager on the Lisa McPherson story and to give them our side of the story.

Participated in March around police station.

Have offered my help to Andrea and Danielle several times to handle people with ARCX’s with WISE.

Have received Commandation Chit from President of WISE Int. at the most recent WISE Conference.

Wrote an article to the St. Pete times at the behest of OSA Brian Anderson regarding the proposed housing of the homeless in downtown and my article was published in the editorial section. I had two editorials published regarding our now defunct Mayor Rita Garvey.

Have told several people about my wins on the SNCC and have pushed people who work with us to get onto course. Got one Gregor Wisner who was a wog onto a course at the mission. 1998

Gave a “What is Scientology” book to the guard at my bank First Union and he went into the Tampa org and started the Personal Integrity Course. 1999

Assisted Michelle Sledge in December of 1998 to get Tony Reid to finish his Lifetime or higher membership and I just last week donated $500.00 to help get books out on the effects of drugs on kids after the Colorado shooting.

After finishing the SNCC part 1 in Jan or Feb of 1999 I started the Hubbard Ethics Specialists course some 30 days later and was on it until recently. April 1999

Routed a doctor from our billing service to Valko Personnel Services for Life Repair in 1997-98

Have mendened ARCX’s between Scientologists since being here. One in particular was an upset that was between Delphi and the Comm Line Newspaper. Both Sandy Adair and Sally Heath can attest to this.

Assisted in getting Dr. Bob Neuwirth from Dallas to Flag for his OT levels 1995-96

Have routed other doctors to Ruth Valko for Life Repair in the past two years. One doctor Richard Lutz and Dr. Wilbeck.

Donated a picture from Author Services to the auction to raise money for the community services program that is put on by Scientology. Eve Witter can attest to this. 1998

Have donated computers and other equipment to Delphi on an ongoing basis. 1997-1999

Have been wearing one of the hats for call in for the Concern Business Association meetings.


2 thoughts on “Greg and Debra Barnes – OTVII Knowledge Reports

  1. About 14 years have elapsed since this KR and the video. What changes have occurred since then?
    And do you have a way that I can contact G and D Barnes? I am NOT on staff and currently am NOT doing any FSMing, so I won’t be hounding them.


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